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  1. #1
    monsieur's Avatar
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    Default The Java will not continue to be free?

    The Java will not continue to be free?

    Reference: https://www.itassetmanagement.net/20...from-jan-2019/
    Last edited by monsieur; 10-23-2018 at 08:42 PM.

  2. #2
    benji2505 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: The Java will not continue to be free?

    Java will continue to be free to use for your personal efforts.
    Only companies will (continue to) have to buy licenses. If you already have a perpetual license and pay annual maintenance fees under the current theme you are probably affected. From what I heard a developer license fo one person will be $2.50 per months for that.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: The Java will not continue to be free?

    Quote Originally Posted by benji2505 View Post
    Java will continue to be free to use for your personal efforts.
    Only companies will (continue to) have to buy licenses. If you already have a perpetual license and pay annual maintenance fees under the current theme you are probably affected. From what I heard a developer license fo one person will be $2.50 per months for that.
    That not exactly true.

    The Oracle 11 JDK has gone commercial. This means that:

    - Oracle will stop supplying you with free updates for versions after the Long Term Suppport period. That means if you insist on running Java 8 for your application, you'd have to pay a subscription to get updates for that.
    - The license of the Oracle JDK has changed. You are no longer allowed to run Java in a production environment without a license:
    Further, You may not:
    - use the Programs for any data processing or any commercial, production, or internal business purposes other than developing, testing, prototyping, and demonstrating your Application;
    Source

    So development is ok, but production is not, unless you get a license.

    An alternative it to use OpenJDK. Oracle even provides one: https://jdk.java.net/11/. Many OpenJDK builds exist. You can even make your own.

    Obligatory source links and HIGHLY recommended reading material:
    - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...5pKuHo/preview
    - https://blog.jetbrains.com/idea/2018...hings-to-know/
    - https://blog.joda.org/2018/09/time-t...acles-jdk.html
    - https://blog.joda.org/2018/09/do-not...a-11-trap.html
    - https://blog.joda.org/2018/08/java-i...zero-cost.html
    - https://jdk.java.net/11/
    - https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/j...e-license.html
    "It's not fixed until you stop calling the problem weird and you understand what was wrong." - gimbal2 2013

  4. #4
    benji2505 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: The Java will not continue to be free?

    Why would anybody stay with Java 8 anyway? There are so many great opportunities with the jigsaw integration now.

  5. #5
    SurfMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Java will not continue to be free?

    Most applications are bigger than System.out.println("Hello World"). Some applications are so big, that pushing in a new JRE/JDK is a lot of work regarding to planning, development, testing and deployment environments.

    My collegue and I develop and maintain a codebase of about 1 million lines. The application runs standalone or client/server (Wildfly). It runs at 450 customers, consisting of government, commercial, banks, insurance, universties, some of them Fortune 500 ones, in 27 countries on 4 continents. Upgrading to Java 11 and creating something that looks remotely like modules takes a lot of planning, work and testing. You can imagine this taking longer than 6 months that Oracle is giving us. Ofcourse we are eager to port to Java 11 to take advantage of all the new fancy shiny stuff, but if that migration takes more than 6 months, and that most likely will, then we're looking at Java 12 and we're back at where we started, albeit with less changes.

    So there is more to this than you might think.
    "It's not fixed until you stop calling the problem weird and you understand what was wrong." - gimbal2 2013

  6. #6
    benji2505 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: The Java will not continue to be free?

    Sounds like an interesting challenge. Sometimes I am wondering whether project jigsaw was too much of a change for many parties involved and it ends up turning users away from Java. You can still invest the $2.50/month and get the Java 8 updates (as long as they are provided), how much is it in Europe anyway? Euro 2.50 ?

  7. #7
    jim829 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: The Java will not continue to be free?

    Based on discussions in this forum about earlier versions of Java several years ago, I'm surprised anyone would port a major system to a new release. I remember back when Java 8 was released, there were folks who were still stuck using java 5 because of the uncertainty of going to Java 6 and encountering unforeseen problems.

    Regards,
    Jim
    The JavaTM Tutorials | SSCCE | Java Naming Conventions
    Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part

  8. #8
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    Default Re: The Java will not continue to be free?

    We have an additional challenge that is called "Swing". We create a desktop application, yes, one of the last in the world, and Oracle has killed Swing. It's been stagnant for many years, only some bugfixes made it in the releases. The new desktop UI is JavaFX. But Oracle also removed all JavaFX code from the JDK. JavaFX is a separate download now (https://openjfx.io/). Interesting choice. As if NO ONE used Java for creating UI's... Not everything is a web application!

    You can make an awesome desktop environment with JavaFX when done properly, but for us it involves a rewrite of the entire UI code. To add to that, we use a handful of components from 3rd parties. For example, we use the Ultimate Suite from JideSoft. The good is that these components are the best in the world when it comes to professional Swing components, and we use it a lot in our application. The bad is that they won't be porting them to JavaFX. In order to keep using them, we could buy the source code and rewrite that code AS WELL to JavaFX. Or buy new components if anyone makes these components similar to JideSoft.

    We have so much to do in so little time :)
    "It's not fixed until you stop calling the problem weird and you understand what was wrong." - gimbal2 2013

  9. #9
    benji2505 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: The Java will not continue to be free?

    The split of Java SE core and JavaFX is part of the Module strategy. JavaFX is a hefty package by now and there are many Java projects out there that simply don’t need it. Making it open source was a smart move because users like frameworks from independent foundations rather than one profit oriented company.

  10. #10
    monsieur's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Java will not continue to be free?

    Quote Originally Posted by SurfMan View Post
    That not exactly true.
    I did not know that this subject is so difficult to understand.

    Is this subject very difficult to understand?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: The Java will not continue to be free?

    Quote Originally Posted by monsieur View Post
    I did not know that this subject is so difficult to understand.

    Is this subject very difficult to understand?
    There is a lot of FUD (Fear, uncertainty and doubt). Oracle has been shit about communicating this properly so the first people who read it were like: "ERMAHGURD YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR JAVA" and that went sort of viral.

    When the rumors were beginning to spread all over the interwebs, a lot of Java Rockstars are now trying to do damage control and explain the situation. But the damage is already done, otherwise you would not be here asking this question.

    Browse through these videos at Oracle Code One 2018. Maybe there is an explanation in there from Mark Reinhold.

    The short answer is: forget Oracle and go OpenJDK.
    "It's not fixed until you stop calling the problem weird and you understand what was wrong." - gimbal2 2013

  12. #12
    SurfMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Java will not continue to be free?

    "It's not fixed until you stop calling the problem weird and you understand what was wrong." - gimbal2 2013

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