Java programmers compared to Assembly programmers

[monsieur]

Currently the Java programmers are paid especially well compared to the experienceds Assembly programmers?

If not, why?

Currently the Java programmers are paid especially well compared to the novices Assembly programmers?

If not, why?

I am asking about this one to I discover the demand for Java and Assembly amongst employers.

[monsieur]

Why nobody is answering these questions?

[SurfMan]

First of all, I am sorry, I had stuff to do yesterday. I do not know why I was being so slow when you needed us the most. It won't happen again.

Second, maybe because we don't know the answer? I am being paid "especially well" being a experienced Java programmer, but I have no idea how much an assembly programmer earns. In fact, I don't even know how you would compare both jobs. Nobody in their right minds programs in assembly for modern day applications. Exception would be IOT and other small scale devices where every byte counts.

If you want to "discover the demand for Java and Assembly amongst employers", you might want to check job sites, and do a comparison there. A hardcore assembler programmer is harder to find than a Java developer, so that would reflect on the salary. If you're orientating for a job direction, I would not put all my eggs in the assembler basket, but don't take my word for it.

[SurfMan]

Crossposts here:
https://forum.osdev.org/viewtopic.ph...art=30#p282957
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/...el-programmers

[monsieur]

Others will answer the topic?

Moderators, you will answer the topic?

[jim829]

No one will really respond to this unless they know the answer (I just happen to be bored today). And then they can only
comment on their situation which may not be typical. Surfman took some time out to give some good advice on doing
research. Start by searching the web for each type of salaried position.

Regards,
Jim

[benji2505]

Exception would be IOT and other small scale devices where every byte counts.

NOt sure about that. Most IOT devices are C++, Java or Python from what I see. Nobody does Assembler anymore.

@OP: If you want to compare demand, jobs and remuneration for different languages, countries and employers I would recommend stackoverflow.com in their section “developer jobs”. It is really a good job market and all the big names are there. You can also find jobs that used to be done in assembler like car operating systems (look for BMW) or electronic components (GE, Siemens). The big hype is DevOps/MicroServices and AI in the moment.

[jim829]

Nobody does Assembler anymore.

Actually, there are those who still do assembly language (AL). They are either for small dedicated processors or there is some
startup code in most OS's which is done in AL. The former devotees are hard core and do not believe a compiler can generate
tight enough code (I disagree for the most part). But they are adamant about it. But for the most part it is a niche market. I did
it for three years professionally in the late 70's and found it very rewarding. That's when I first had to learn about IEEE 754
representation (not certain what it was called back then). Anyway, I digress.

Regards,
Jim

[monsieur]

Nobody does Assembler anymore.

Actually, there are those who still do assembly language (AL).

Hi,

Actually, also there are those who still do machine code?

For example, actually, also there are those who still do binary code, hex code and octal code?

[jim829]

Hi,
also there are those who still do binary code, hex code and octal code?

Actually, I can't say for certain. When I did this back in the 70's I would sometimes toggle in machine code in octal. The purpose was
to load in a bootstrap program which would then load in the main program. This was done with paper tape binaries. You could also
do it to patch existing code by placing no-ops in various spots of the code and then use those as placeholders. One could add a branch instruction
at those locations to branch to the patch and return. I haven't seen anything like that in 20 years. I do know there are examples in Java where one
can modify the actual byte code. But that is, imho, a fringe capability.

I really do not know what the capabilities are today for programming in machine code (or even microcode which is extremely low level).

Regards,
Jim

[SurfMan]

Why do you ask all this? Are you considering a career in writing binary?

[SurfMan]

NOt sure about that. Most IOT devices are C++, Java or Python from what I see. Nobody does Assembler anymore.

My Arduinos do not support Java, Python, or C++, just a subset of C. It has 2K ish of SRAM to work with. Just creating a bunch of Strings will eat memory like a champ, add the libraries to controlling a display to that, and your SRAM AND Flash memory are gone.

I figure that in an environment where devices are deployed in space or sensors that lie on the bottom of the ocean every byte seriously counts. And I'll make the assumption that the average Philips Hue lamp has no Java and Python runtime in it.

I probably should not have called this IoT, since that implies a different category of devices.

[monsieur]

Are you considering a career in writing binary?

Yes.

[monsieur]

Why do you ask all this? Are you considering a career in writing binary?

Uh, good luck with that. You might want to learn to flip burgers in case that doesn't pan out.

Regards,
Jim

Currently are employed experienceds machine code programmers?

If not, why?

Currently are employed novices machine code programmers?

If not, why?

I am asking about this one to I discover the demand for machine code amongst employers.

[SurfMan]

Currently are employed experienceds machine code programmers?

If not, why?

Currently are employed novices machine code programmers?

If not, why?

I am asking about this one to I discover the demand for machine code amongst employers.

¿Que? That's the roughly same question you started with. If you don't like the answers, don't repeat the question, but be more specific. And we already gave you the answers.

For example, actually, also there are those who still do binary code, hex code and octal code?"

You don't "do" binary, hex or octal code. Those are number systems with a different radix. Binary is base-2, octal is base-8, decimal is base-10, hex is base-16. Some radices show up more in one language than another. That has nothing to do with the job that you choose.

[monsieur]

¿Que? That's the roughly same question you started with.

I started with Assembly, not machine code, for example, binary code.

[jim829]

Assembly language is not binary code or more specifically, not numeric code.

Assembly language is a lower form of programming using various mnemonics to carry out operations.
The AL must then be "assembled" to generate a machine (CPU) compatible file.

Entering numbers, either thru a front panel or a keyboard is programming in machine code.
The numbers represent data, memory locations, or instructions. The base one decides to use to write
the program is irrelevant to the system. You can use whatever you want. However, you will probably
need to convert it to some appropriate base when you enter it into the system.

Regards,
Jim

[monsieur]

¿Que? That's the roughly same question you started with. If you don't like the answers, don't repeat the question, but be more specific. And we already gave you the answers.


You don't "do" binary, hex or octal code. Those are number systems with a different radix. Binary is base-2, octal is base-8, decimal is base-10, hex is base-16. Some radices show up more in one language than another. That has nothing to do with the job that you choose.

According the Deitels in book "Java How to Program", "any computer can directly understand only its own machine language, defined by its hardware design. Machine languages generally consist of strings of numbers (ultimately reduced to 1s and 0s) that instruct computers to perform their most elementary operations one at a time. Machine languages are machine dependent (a particular machine language can be used on only one type of computer). Such languages are cumbersome for humans.
For example, here’s a section of an early machine-language program that adds overtime pay to base pay and stores the result in gross pay:

+1300042774
+1400593419
+1200274027

Programming in machine language was simply too slow and tedious for most programmers. Instead of using the strings of numbers that computers could directly understand, programmers began using English-like abbreviations to represent elementary operations. These abbreviations formed the basis of assembly languages. Translator programs called assemblers were developed to convert early assembly-language programs to machine language at computer speeds. The following section of an assembly-language program also adds overtime pay to base pay and stores the result in gross pay:

load basepay
add overpay
store grosspay

Although such code is clearer to humans, it’s incomprehensible to computers until translated to machine language".

[jim829]

Not certain why you posted that but that is basically what has been said (sans the part about being cumbersome to humans).

Regards,
Jim

[monsieur]

Not certain why you posted that but that is basically what has been said (sans the part about being cumbersome to humans).

Regards,
Jim

I wanted to quote the source of my following answer:

I started with Assembly, not machine code, for example, binary code.

According the book of Deitels, Java How to Program, Assembly is not machine code.