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Thread: Intermediate Java section?
- 07-13-2008, 06:47 PM #1
Intermediate Java section?
The "advanced" java section doesn't have many (any?) advanced questions. Its more of a "no longer a newbie" section.
Should we consider an "intermediate" section? or perhaps a rename of "advanced"?
Some of this depends on the demographics of your users, there don't seem to be that many serious professionals who can ask seriously hard problems. If the user community is mostly newbies or folks in their first year or so of professional development, a real advanced section won't be that populated.
In another forum, JavaRanch, which advertises itself as a place for greenhorns, they have an advanced section, but nearly all of the postings are not advanced. So the moderators have to move most of them to better locations.
As an old pro, I'd really like a section to answer my questions.
- 07-16-2008, 02:46 AM #2
The view that the advanced section does not contain advanced questions is also subjective. To a newbie, those questions likely appear advanced but to a seasoned professional, they can appear at the intermediate level and sometimes even for these people in particular, they can appear as even beginning level questions that are misplaced. Contact a moderator if you feel a question has been misplaced at any level or even if you feel a thread, question or response is inappropriate in any way.
I can't(and I don't think I'm alone) pretend that I have the time to check every thread and every post. But if you're patient, your question - if presented clearly enough along with detailed information, will get answered by someone eventually. I say if you're not happy with the level of responses, you are allowed to bump your thread to the top - provided enough time has passed since you last posted to that thread. Some forums use a frame of four hours, others use eight, some use 24 hours... I particularly favor the full day, but that's just me.
With all this said, the line between beginning and advanced is definitely more fine grained rather than so definite. But keep something in mind, these two sections are for general questions.. if you have a very specific question, there should be another subforum somewhere down below that you should be able to find and post to relating to your level of specificity(you may suggest a subforum if you cannot find somewhere to put your specific question). I believe the idea behind these two sections is to have a place where members could post something that they felt was not specific, but that could be placed in one of two sections. Should we give members a third option when they already have two? Could this possibly confuse them? Having just two section cuts down on the places to visit and due to the level of subjectivity experienced by everyone(not everyone is the same afterall), more than two sections is difficult to moderate - thus having two options should be sufficient.
Ultimately, I think we should wait for JavaTip's judgment on this. :)
Last edited by CaptainMorgan; 07-16-2008 at 02:51 AM.
- 07-16-2008, 03:47 AM #3
I started this thread because there was a question about zero-based indexing of arrays in the "advanced" section. To me, that's a day one of Java 101 question. This is just an example, but the advanced section seems to be more typical of 6 month experienced folks.
I am not smart enough to draw crisp lines between beginner, intermediate, advanced, and guru-only. But sometimes, you can tell where things generally belong.
As I said upthread, on JavaRanch, at least 95% of the postings in their advanced section are locked and moved down to easier sections.
- 07-16-2008, 04:02 AM #4
- 07-16-2008, 08:22 PM #5
What is an advanced question.
Captain, I was watching that post - the one Opie refers to - and knew from get-go / Day-One exactly what would happen with that post. The why's and wherefores of what would proceed are prima-facia to me, why no one else sees them is completely beyond my perception. The actual answer to the question, as posted at that time, is better addressed by the Java Real Time Specification as it is developing and dispensing with prior work that the JRTS comes from. My goal in bringing ftr as an invited guest at JF was planned at about that time, I failed that goal yesterday by misreading an internet moniker in introductions as being the Real Specification for Poster's Work. You corrected me.
The issue or challenge I put up is exactly the sort of thing we would hope for in an advanced area, though I built it out intending to dispense some intervening work in the interests of efficiency. Trying to spot statement reordering by an optimizing compiler is not exactly an advanced question if viewed under the light of ftr's posted public resume. I can fathom exactly what attainment is sought to be achieved here. We all get a little dizzy in all the code, someone to talk to when that happens reduces mtbf by the challenge-response of peer review.
There is nothing I would hope for any better than having an area where the basis of moderation for advanced work is advanced work. Exactly how we define that is a goal I thought of as being an advanced section does not contain newbies. Maybe some of the best work is set off by newbie work, the removal to intermediate of which ftr speaks was neither newbie nor computer science. I then proceeded to have a field day with ftr. I doubt that we are going to do work at the level of Sedgewick's Algorithms in Java in any such advanced fora ( plural of forum ). That would be, generally, the prototype sought.
I have a remakable sense of intuition, ftr just does not have one to put on the board right now. It is a difficult issue in that the amount of traffic we would expect for Java Forums would seem to me and sombody like ftr to be two to three orders of magnitude greater than what it is. In the day when we came up, something like this would be viewed with marvel and fascination. When ftr says ' couple of notches down ' it would serve our discussion here that you consider the fact that he taught this stuff. How it is that he now wants to ask questions sounds to me like a desire for an open fora to relax and visit, an informal area perhaps.
What is going on here, I have seen before. I had an oportunity to assist a sub-contractor at research facility doing some research. I was told, with a inexplicable look, that all the contract review process and so on was just a front for going to dinner someplace nice on a riverwalk. When we say advanced work, it is worth noting that we recently picked up a poster who has spent a lifetime coding full-rack systems. I see some opportunity here, though that may be limited to examining exactly what an advanced issue is in Java. Certainly a shipment which allows newbies to set up an SSL / HTTP server for zero bucks is an un-precedented arena.
Why ftr's post got bucked down is ageless, and well documented in classic literature.Introduction to Programming Using Java.
Cybercartography: A new theoretical construct proposed by D.R. Fraser Taylor
- 07-17-2008, 12:16 AM #6
We still haven't heard anything form the site's benevolent dictator... but since I am currently the only moderator commenting on this subject, let's do this... when you find a thread or post that is inappropriate in any way, report it. With review, we'll gladly move them to their appropriate sections. If the flood of reports is overwhelming, this would indicate a necessary change in the General section to incorporate another sub-forum, one such that you mention.
Nick, I apologize for not completing the reading of your post, but trust that I will come back to it when time allows.
- 07-17-2008, 12:55 AM #7
What I am saying there is ftr really knows his stuff. I was trying to be accurate and deeply effective, basically the issues actually get into some compiler science. We have a breed-apart today.Introduction to Programming Using Java.
Cybercartography: A new theoretical construct proposed by D.R. Fraser Taylor
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