1. ## Re: Incorrect formulas

Originally Posted by santa
Wow, that is literary the worst comparison I'v ever seen. However had you given me an example of how to solve it, I would have know that the answer was 42 and how to calculate it. You're just trolling man.
No I'm not; you argued that you could learn from examples; I gave you a couple of examples and you induced an answer without reading any further information and now you're telling me that I should've given you an example of how to solve it ... think about it.

kind regards,

Jos

2. ## Re: Incorrect formulas

Originally Posted by JosAH
No (in a very fundamental way); e.g the examples are 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 .. what is the next example?

kind regards,

Jos
These are example result output/alternatively a sequence of numbers with similarity F(N) = N*2 and nobody in the world could solve this problem because the result is whatever you troll it to be. These numbers are NOT examples of how to solve the problem. Nice try.

3. ## Re: Incorrect formulas

Originally Posted by santa
These are example result output/alternatively a sequence of numbers with similarity F(N) = N*2 and nobody in the world could solve this problem because the result is whatever you troll it to be. These numbers are NOT examples of how to solve the problem. Nice try.
Nobody could solve this problem without reading about the entire problem. There is no learning by example as my example clearly showed.

kind regards,

Jos

4. ## Re: Incorrect formulas

Originally Posted by JosAH
Nobody could solve this problem without reading about the entire problem. There is no learning by example as my example clearly showed.

kind regards,

Jos

Amazing ... just amazing. How can someone try to solve something without knowing the whole problem? What part of "this is not a valid example solution" didn't you get? I don't know what you guys smoke down in Netherlands. But save some for me

5. ## Re: Incorrect formulas

Originally Posted by santa
Amazing ... just amazing. How can someone try to solve something without knowing the whole problem? What part of "this is not a valid example solution" didn't you get? I don't know what you guys smoke down in Netherlands. But save some for me
While I agree that my example was very contrived, it did clearly show that learning for a (finit) amount of examples is impossible; but you obviously lack any form of scientific insight so you don't understand.

jos

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## Re: Incorrect formulas

I think that's the point, though.
We don't know the whole problem.
We could give example after example, but if we can't get an OP to describe where they are having a problem then those examples might:
A. Not actually deal with their problem at hand.
B. The OP may not have a clue that A is the case.

Getting someone to look at and identify the actual problem they are having is 90% of the battle here on the forum. Just handing over "the codes" really doesn't help.

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## Re: Incorrect formulas

I think err.. Santa posted the output of his thought process. In the same way that Jos posted the output of his mystery function. Jos wasn't showing how learning by example was incorrect. He was showing how learning by output of example was incorrect. Santa, if you'd broken the problem down into described stages, it would have been more of a lesson than a simple correction. The point of answering a question is to help the asker develop the concepts that they are missing; we want to give the tools for them to arrive at the answer. Not just the answer. My point is they may have learnt all there is too know about this specific problem, but they have gained no transferable skill whatsoever. It doesn't make them a better computer programmer, it makes them a better banker, which isn't their aim otherwise they'd be on an accounting forum asking accounting questions. But I think it remains to be said I'm glad there are people like Santa who are prepared to go to so much effort to answer a question, even if they did make it too easy for OP :)

8. ## Re: Incorrect formulas

Originally Posted by JosAH
While I agree that my example was very contrived, it did clearly show that learning for a (finit) amount of examples is impossible; but you obviously lack any form of scientific insight so you don't understand.

jos

Clearly your example is like saying "calculate X" and the correct answer will be what you troll it to be. However you my good sir are a very interesting person... first you agree that your example was irrelevant and then you complain about my "lack any form of scientific insight". I'm guessing your not a rocket scientist yourself.

9. ## Re: Incorrect formulas

Originally Posted by Tolls
I think that's the point, though.
We don't know the whole problem.
We could give example after example, but if we can't get an OP to describe where they are having a problem then those examples might:
A. Not actually deal with their problem at hand.
B. The OP may not have a clue that A is the case.

Getting someone to look at and identify the actual problem they are having is 90% of the battle here on the forum. Just handing over "the codes" really doesn't help.
Come on man... did you even read the posts? I did find the problem for, the problem was in the code . No but all jokes aside if I want to post an example solution why do you guys have a problem with that? I'm sure it did not fuck up his life. If the person is serious about java he will go trough it and see what happens. Otherwise he will just copy paste and be happy. No harm done.

10. ## Re: Incorrect formulas

Originally Posted by santa
Is was extremely relevant; it clearly showed that no matter how many examples (read: boilerplate code or 'teh codez') you give, the receiver of 'teh codez' who is too lazy to read a book or tutorial on the subject, won't learn from the examples.

Originally Posted by santa
Clearly your example is like saying "calculate X" and the correct answer will be what you troll it to be. However you my good sir are a very interesting person... first you agree that your example was irrelevant and then you complain about my "lack any form of scientific insight". I'm guessing your not a rocket scientist yourself.
I'm not a rocket scientist, I'm a mathematician (MSc graduated and all that) and your behaviour doesn't show any scientific insight at all. 'contrived' doesn't imply 'irrelevant'.

Jos

11. ## Re: Incorrect formulas

Originally Posted by christopherx
I think err.. Santa posted the output of his thought process. In the same way that Jos posted the output of his mystery function. Jos wasn't showing how learning by example was incorrect. He was showing how learning by output of example was incorrect. Santa, if you'd broken the problem down into described stages, it would have been more of a lesson than a simple correction. The point of answering a question is to help the asker develop the concepts that they are missing; we want to give the tools for them to arrive at the answer. Not just the answer. My point is they may have learnt all there is too know about this specific problem, but they have gained no transferable skill whatsoever. It doesn't make them a better computer programmer, it makes them a better banker, which isn't their aim otherwise they'd be on an accounting forum asking accounting questions. But I think it remains to be said I'm glad there are people like Santa who are prepared to go to so much effort to answer a question, even if they did make it too easy for OP :)
I did not post the output i posted an example solution. The output here would have been the out put of the program.

If the guy is serious and want to learn its easy to study the code and find out. I was not trying to make a tutorial in java programming I just thought it was an easy problem and sometimes when your stuck it helps to rethink/see how others have done. My code is not tested and I'm did not know if it works I just made it in some minutes as a example to be studied. I really don't see why you people have a problem with it? Is it that unusual that someone makes an effort or what?

12. ## Re: Incorrect formulas

Originally Posted by santa
Is it that unusual that someone makes an effort or what?
This forum tries to make an effort to tell people where they can find the answer to their problem (tutorials, books etc.), not by supplying boilerplate code that might even be utterly incorrect because the replier didn't test the code. It is considered not done here.

Jos

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## Re: Incorrect formulas

Originally Posted by santa
If the person is serious about java he will go trough it and see what happens. Otherwise he will just copy paste and be happy. No harm done.
Or he'll copy and paste it, get his pass, then do the same further on.
Then, some day in the future, I'll end up having to pick up the pieces of some have arsed piece of work cut and pasted without a great deal of thought. And before you say "as if that would happen", a large chunk of my career is spent dealing with the wierd and wonderful things people do to their code when they don't understand what it is they're doing.

(No offence OP, I don't know you from Adam, though).

14. ## Re: Incorrect formulas

Originally Posted by JosAH
Is was extremely relevant; it clearly showed that no matter how many examples (read: boilerplate code or 'teh codez') you give, the receiver of 'teh codez' who is too lazy to read a book or tutorial on the subject, won't learn from the examples.
Come on man just give it up... no MSc graduate would have pulled such an example. If you would have provided the solution to you problem and not just some outputs then I would have known how to solve it.

It's like saying the System.out.println("Hello"); What will they other output of my program be?

I'm not a rocket scientist, I'm a mathematician (MSc graduated and all that) and your behaviour doesn't show any scientific insight at all. 'contrived' doesn't imply 'irrelevant'.
Jos
I will not discuss your degree of studies I'm sure that they teached you well at hogwarts. Did you also take the trolling course there?
Last edited by JosAH; 01-30-2012 at 07:30 PM. Reason: irrelevant link and absurd large font deleted

15. ## Re: Incorrect formulas

Originally Posted by JosAH
This forum tries to make an effort to tell people where they can find the answer to their problem (tutorials, books etc.), not by supplying boilerplate code that might even be utterly incorrect because the replier didn't test the code. It is considered not done here.

Jos
I'm sure that all of you code is 100% bugg free. However if you would have taken the quality management course you would find that that's rarely the case. But however in your case I'm sure you differ. Pueff man don't ever try pseudo coding because that goes against this forums rules apparently.

16. ## Re: Incorrect formulas

Originally Posted by Tolls
Or he'll copy and paste it, get his pass, then do the same further on.
Then, some day in the future, I'll end up having to pick up the pieces of some have arsed piece of work cut and pasted without a great deal of thought. And before you say "as if that would happen", a large chunk of my career is spent dealing with the wierd and wonderful things people do to their code when they don't understand what it is they're doing.

(No offence OP, I don't know you from Adam, though).
Then he made a choice to copy it even when i specified that I't was not tested. What's it to you? You made a career out of it ...

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## Re: Incorrect formulas

It means a lot to me as I'd much rather not have to deal with the crud.
I do quite like doing my own work.
There are enough halfwits in this industry, I don't intend on helping more of them to get in.

18. ## Re: Incorrect formulas

Originally Posted by Tolls
It means a lot to me as I'd much rather not have to deal with the crud.
I do quite like doing my own work.
There are enough halfwits in this industry, I don't intend on helping more of them to get in.

You make a career out of it and your mad about it? I'm not going to stop you from doing your own work and i doubt that the OP will ether. Surely I'm not at fault because I do not have a career yet and I will never copy someones code. I did not mean to fuck up anyone's life I JUST WANTED TO HELP HIM and then there was some complaining and the trolling started. I think you guys need to focus more on helping the OP and less bitching about me destroying the world with a example.

19. ## Re: Incorrect formulas

Originally Posted by santa
I think you guys need to focus more on helping the OP and less bitching about me destroying the world with a example.
As long as you realize that just posting boilerplate code is not done in this forum. If you go on like this (obnoxious discussions about this subject etc) you'll be banned.

Jos

20. ## Re: Incorrect formulas

Originally Posted by JosAH
As long as you realize that just posting boilerplate code is not done in this forum. If you go on like this (obnoxious discussions about this subject etc) you'll be banned.

Jos
Yeah, there it goes. Help OP and then get shit for it and when I defend myself I'll get banned for it? Nice blow for free speech on internet... So just to be clear if i post boilerplate code I'll get banned?

I'd like to quote a pm from OP:
kprofgold
Member

"Thanks

Hey just wanted to say thank you for trying to help out. I am going to school for networking and was thrown into a java class in which I really have no clue what I'm doing. These moderators think you can learn how to program just by reading a book well that's just ridiculous. Almost everything in life you learn you learn by seeing and having someone show you. Java is the same thing and my books only confuse me more than help me."
(I apologize to kprofgold if you did not want anyone to read it, I just wanted them to see that It was appreciated)

That being said there is no question about that you do learn from books and I learned (and still refreshing my knowledge in java) by doing the exercises and seeing examples the 1500 page book "Introduction to Java Programming, Comprehensive version by Y. Daniel Liang" witch can be a handful bye its size and massive chapters.

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