Just a question

**Army** · 01-09-2012, 03:34 PM

I am a intermediate Java Programmer with some small holes to fill.

I know someone who is a great programmer, but they tell me I'm doing things wrong. I use Eclipse, which compiles and runs the code on it's own, without me having to actually do anything. He says that I'm setting myself up for failure because I don't necessarily know how to make a compiler/runner off the top of my head. He tells me to use Notepad++ because I'm "just starting out" in his eyes. He doesn't really tell me how to actually make a runner or a compiler, though, even though I've asked him multiple times to help me.

Am I really learning Java the wrong way because I'm using an IDE, or should I just forget about him altogether?

**Norm** · 01-09-2012, 03:49 PM

Many people feel as your friend does. People that never use a simple editor and the command prompt do not learn how java works. The IDE keeps the details hidden. The first big issue is when you try to take a project out of the IDE to execute as an OS command. The IDE only person will have lots of problems with this step.

**Army** · 01-09-2012, 03:51 PM

Well, should I stop using an IDE? I mean it is getting a little annoying having to create a new class every time I want to make a simple file. Are there any forums for making a compiler/runner for N++ so I know how to run my programs?

**Tolls** · 01-09-2012, 03:55 PM

They're not wrong, really.
You should learn how to get Java (at least your early, simple programs) compiling and running using the command line and a simple text editor. That'll teach you about classpaths and the like.

Of course, to say that and not explain how to go about it is a bit rich.

WHat OS are you on? Presumably Windows?

ETA: curse my slowness!

**Army** · 01-09-2012, 03:56 PM

Windows 7/32.

**Norm** · 01-09-2012, 04:14 PM

The java tutorial has this:
"Hello World!" for Microsoft Windows (The Java™ Tutorials > Getting Started > The "Hello World!" Application)

**Army** · 01-09-2012, 05:00 PM

It's says, system cannot find the path specified when I tried to open the cd C:\java on the CMD.

**Norm** · 01-09-2012, 05:07 PM

Can you post the console window's contents here?
To copy the contents of the command prompt window:
Click on Icon in upper left corner
Select Edit
Select 'Select All' - The selection will show
Click in upper left again
Select Edit and click 'Copy'

Paste here.

Does the Java folder exist?

D:\JavaDevelopment>cd D:\asdf
The system cannot find the path specified.

D:\JavaDevelopment>

**Army** · 01-09-2012, 05:31 PM

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Lenovo>cd C:\java
The system cannot find the path specified.

C:\Users\Lenovo>java -version
java version "1.7.0_01"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.7.0_01-b08)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 21.1-b02, mixed mode, sharing)

C:\Users\Lenovo>

**Norm** · 01-09-2012, 05:35 PM

Is there a java folder?
Google: MS-DOS commands to get the correct syntax

**KevinWorkman** · 01-09-2012, 05:37 PM

That tutorial trail contains a page of helpful troubleshooting tips, including this problem: Lesson: Common Problems (and Their Solutions) (The Java™ Tutorials > Getting Started)

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but the fact that you didn't know how to fix this problem, or at least look through the tutorials to figure it out, pretty much proves your friend right.

Edit- Nevermind, I see now that you're having problems with command-line commands. But this page will come in handy when you do get to the next steps anyway, so I'll leave the link here.

**Army** · 01-09-2012, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by KevinWorkman

That tutorial trail contains a page of helpful troubleshooting tips, including this problem: Lesson: Common Problems (and Their Solutions) (The Java™ Tutorials > Getting Started)

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but the fact that you didn't know how to fix this problem, or at least look through the tutorials to figure it out, pretty much proves your friend right.

Edit- Nevermind, I see now that you're having problems with command-line commands. But this page will come in handy when you do get to the next steps anyway, so I'll leave the link here.

how does using an IDE have to do with anything?

**Tolls** · 01-09-2012, 05:48 PM

Fromt he tutorial:
"
To compile your source file, change your current directory to the directory where your file is located.
"

They are using C:\Java as an example.
If your code is not located there (and it clearly isn't) then don't go to that directory. Go to the one where you code (ie the .java file) is.

**KevinWorkman** · 01-09-2012, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Army

how does using an IDE have to do with anything?

Using an IDE hides many aspects of programming- including working from the command prompt. That was your friend's point. You demonstrated it. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as your recognize it and learn from it.

**Army** · 01-09-2012, 06:34 PM

I'll actually just use an IDE, I mean, I'll use something like N++ once I get a little more knowledgeable.

**KevinWorkman** · 01-09-2012, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Army

I'll actually just use an IDE, I mean, I'll use something like N++ once I get a little more knowledgeable.

It's completely your call, but in my opinion (and your friend's opinion, and the opinion of many others), you're doing it backwards, which will end up hurting your programming ability. It's really up to you. I am curious though- if you were just going to use an IDE anyway, why bother asking our opinions?

**Army** · 01-09-2012, 06:41 PM

Because actually not using an IDE takes up too much time.

**Norm** · 01-09-2012, 06:44 PM

Yes, IDEs are often faster.
However, knowing what is happening when you compile and execute a program will be necessary if you ever try to do anything outside of the IDE.

**KevinWorkman** · 01-09-2012, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Army

Because actually not using an IDE takes up too much time.

Well, that's kind of the point. Learning the basics takes time. Using an IDE cuts down on that time, but it also cuts down on what you're learning. Couple that with the process of looking through tutorials and the API as opposed to relying on an IDE's autocomplete, and IDEs are not very beginner friendly in that regard. It might seem easier to you now, but you're only hurting yourself in the future. Up to you though.

**JosAH** · 01-09-2012, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Army

Am I really learning Java the wrong way because I'm using an IDE, or should I just forget about him altogether?

You're not doing anything wrong because it's your IDE that's doing the right things for you; but the core of the 'problem' is, that you don't know yet what that IDE is doing for you. That's why people advise you not to use an IDE before you know what you're doing.

kind regards,

Jos