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Thread: Just a question

  1. #1
    Army is offline Senior Member
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    Default Just a question

    I am a intermediate Java Programmer with some small holes to fill.

    I know someone who is a great programmer, but they tell me I'm doing things wrong. I use Eclipse, which compiles and runs the code on it's own, without me having to actually do anything. He says that I'm setting myself up for failure because I don't necessarily know how to make a compiler/runner off the top of my head. He tells me to use Notepad++ because I'm "just starting out" in his eyes. He doesn't really tell me how to actually make a runner or a compiler, though, even though I've asked him multiple times to help me.

    Am I really learning Java the wrong way because I'm using an IDE, or should I just forget about him altogether?

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    Norm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just a question

    Many people feel as your friend does. People that never use a simple editor and the command prompt do not learn how java works. The IDE keeps the details hidden. The first big issue is when you try to take a project out of the IDE to execute as an OS command. The IDE only person will have lots of problems with this step.

  3. #3
    Army is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Just a question

    Well, should I stop using an IDE? I mean it is getting a little annoying having to create a new class every time I want to make a simple file. Are there any forums for making a compiler/runner for N++ so I know how to run my programs?

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    Tolls is offline Moderator
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    Default Re: Just a question

    They're not wrong, really.
    You should learn how to get Java (at least your early, simple programs) compiling and running using the command line and a simple text editor. That'll teach you about classpaths and the like.

    Of course, to say that and not explain how to go about it is a bit rich.

    WHat OS are you on? Presumably Windows?

    ETA: curse my slowness!

  5. #5
    Army is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Just a question

    Windows 7/32.

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  7. #7
    Army is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Just a question

    It's says, system cannot find the path specified when I tried to open the cd C:\java on the CMD.

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    Norm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just a question

    Can you post the console window's contents here?
    To copy the contents of the command prompt window:
    Click on Icon in upper left corner
    Select Edit
    Select 'Select All' - The selection will show
    Click in upper left again
    Select Edit and click 'Copy'

    Paste here.

    Does the Java folder exist?
    D:\JavaDevelopment>cd D:\asdf
    The system cannot find the path specified.

    D:\JavaDevelopment>

  9. #9
    Army is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Just a question

    Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
    Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

    C:\Users\Lenovo>cd C:\java
    The system cannot find the path specified.

    C:\Users\Lenovo>java -version
    java version "1.7.0_01"
    Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.7.0_01-b08)
    Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 21.1-b02, mixed mode, sharing)

    C:\Users\Lenovo>

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    Norm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just a question

    Is there a java folder?
    Google: MS-DOS commands to get the correct syntax

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    Default Re: Just a question

    That tutorial trail contains a page of helpful troubleshooting tips, including this problem: Lesson: Common Problems (and Their Solutions) (The Java™ Tutorials > Getting Started)

    I don't want to sound like a jerk, but the fact that you didn't know how to fix this problem, or at least look through the tutorials to figure it out, pretty much proves your friend right.

    Edit- Nevermind, I see now that you're having problems with command-line commands. But this page will come in handy when you do get to the next steps anyway, so I'll leave the link here.
    How to Ask Questions the Smart Way
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    Default Re: Just a question

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinWorkman View Post
    That tutorial trail contains a page of helpful troubleshooting tips, including this problem: Lesson: Common Problems (and Their Solutions) (The Java™ Tutorials > Getting Started)

    I don't want to sound like a jerk, but the fact that you didn't know how to fix this problem, or at least look through the tutorials to figure it out, pretty much proves your friend right.

    Edit- Nevermind, I see now that you're having problems with command-line commands. But this page will come in handy when you do get to the next steps anyway, so I'll leave the link here.
    how does using an IDE have to do with anything?

  13. #13
    Tolls is offline Moderator
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    Default Re: Just a question

    Fromt he tutorial:
    "
    To compile your source file, change your current directory to the directory where your file is located.
    "

    They are using C:\Java as an example.
    If your code is not located there (and it clearly isn't) then don't go to that directory. Go to the one where you code (ie the .java file) is.

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    Default Re: Just a question

    Quote Originally Posted by Army View Post
    how does using an IDE have to do with anything?
    Using an IDE hides many aspects of programming- including working from the command prompt. That was your friend's point. You demonstrated it. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as your recognize it and learn from it.
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  15. #15
    Army is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Just a question

    I'll actually just use an IDE, I mean, I'll use something like N++ once I get a little more knowledgeable.

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    Default Re: Just a question

    Quote Originally Posted by Army View Post
    I'll actually just use an IDE, I mean, I'll use something like N++ once I get a little more knowledgeable.
    It's completely your call, but in my opinion (and your friend's opinion, and the opinion of many others), you're doing it backwards, which will end up hurting your programming ability. It's really up to you. I am curious though- if you were just going to use an IDE anyway, why bother asking our opinions?
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  17. #17
    Army is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Just a question

    Because actually not using an IDE takes up too much time.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Just a question

    Yes, IDEs are often faster.
    However, knowing what is happening when you compile and execute a program will be necessary if you ever try to do anything outside of the IDE.

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    Default Re: Just a question

    Quote Originally Posted by Army View Post
    Because actually not using an IDE takes up too much time.
    Well, that's kind of the point. Learning the basics takes time. Using an IDE cuts down on that time, but it also cuts down on what you're learning. Couple that with the process of looking through tutorials and the API as opposed to relying on an IDE's autocomplete, and IDEs are not very beginner friendly in that regard. It might seem easier to you now, but you're only hurting yourself in the future. Up to you though.
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    Default Re: Just a question

    Quote Originally Posted by Army View Post
    Am I really learning Java the wrong way because I'm using an IDE, or should I just forget about him altogether?
    You're not doing anything wrong because it's your IDE that's doing the right things for you; but the core of the 'problem' is, that you don't know yet what that IDE is doing for you. That's why people advise you not to use an IDE before you know what you're doing.

    kind regards,

    Jos
    cenosillicaphobia: the fear for an empty beer glass

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