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Thread: How can I CONTROL unwanted Java execution under windows XP, short of deleting it ?

  1. #1
    steve_usa is offline Member
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    Default How can I CONTROL unwanted Java execution under windows XP, short of deleting it ?

    I knowingly use java maybe once a month. Short of those occasional uses, I DON'T want java running on my system... I don't want the resource overhead and, most of all, I don't want to to wonder what programs are running it WITHOUT my knowledge. I've deleted java entirely on multiple occasions for just this reason but invariably something comes up which eventually requires a reinstall.

    It occurs to me this would be a basic functionality at the OS level: that NO executable which hasn't been specially privileged (and I means specially) should be able to start or run without notifying me and getting my permission on a case by case basis. But, to by knowledge, this doesn't exist on windows xp any system (except that under unix I could use a special group and some sort of start up script...maybe).

    It should also be, imo, be a basic functionality at the java SECURITY level. Instead of assuming that everyone wants java resident all the time, and wants any program to be able to access java at any time, why can't it default to NOT running unless I specifically cold start it -- manually and ideally via some hashed password scheme? Also, why not give the USER the right to FORCE any java program to first notify the user and pass a password test before the java engine is loaded or allowed to run the java program. I'm sure it wouldn't suit many of you java junkies but it sure would be a gift to the world at large!

    Obviously, these sorts of basic and commonsense security hurtles wouldn't make Oracle particularly happy, but it sure would increase security and performance (on a performance challenged system) by several orders of magnitude!!

    The same question/ concern should/could also be directed at many other "services" -- such as the "flash" program which subverted my system last week and invited a virus attack or the database engine I use maybe once a year but wants to be resident all the time.

    As an old time UNIX guy this whole thing of basic security/performance control just gets me torqued...it seems so silly I should even have to be posting to find the magic key to get the damned java genie back in its bottle where it belongs when I don't specifically call it out.

    Thanks for any solutions!

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    Norm's Avatar
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    Default Re: How can I CONTROL unwanted Java execution under windows XP, short of deleting it

    Why do you allow the reinstall to happen? Once you've removed/deleted java from your PC, why let it back?
    How do you control adobe reader? It's a big annoyance to me when it continues to want to get updates.
    Flash has been disabled in my browsers.
    My hosts file is full of banned web sites.
    Last edited by Norm; 12-27-2011 at 02:25 AM.

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    steve_usa is offline Member
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    Default Re: How can I CONTROL unwanted Java execution under windows XP, short of deleting it

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    Why do you allow the reinstall to happen? Once you've removed/deleted java from your PC, why let it back?
    How do you control adobe reader? It's a big annoyance to me when it continues to want to get updates.
    Flash has been disabled in my browsers.
    My hosts file is full of banned web sites.
    Thanks for replying, although I gave my explanation in my original post: "I've deleted java entirely on multiple occasions for just this reason but invariably something comes up which eventually requires a reinstall." That is, I am not anti-Java, I am pro-security.

    BTW, I never would have believed, back in the early 1980's, that viruses and worms would remain a big problem in 2012. Once CPUs began supporting privileged access at a hardware level, I figured that OSes would all follow and most virus concerns would go away. I never thought that companies such as Microsoft, Adobe, and Oracle would ENCOURAGE on-going software exploits by not embracing obvious and almost trivial security measures BY DEFAULT. Since most users on most systems are not experts, the defaults should always be towards maximum lock-down and not vice versa. After all this time I have to conclude that the various vendors are making things difficult and dangerous DELIBERATELY; it is not always obvious where they payback is for them, but it is clear that user preference and user security is actually DELIBERATELY being sacrificed to their pagan gods.

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    Norm's Avatar
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    Default Re: How can I CONTROL unwanted Java execution under windows XP, short of deleting it

    I agree with most of that. MS wants an access to any Windows system and is not smart enough to keep others from using the same big barn door that they use. Defaults are the wrong way.
    There, I've gotten it off my chest and can move on to something I have more control over.

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    steve_usa is offline Member
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    Default Re: How can I CONTROL unwanted Java execution under windows XP, short of deleting it

    What? You're not going to help me? :->

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    Norm's Avatar
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    Default Re: How can I CONTROL unwanted Java execution under windows XP, short of deleting it

    I've given you my advice: delete java and do not install it again.

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    steve_usa is offline Member
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    Default Re: How can I CONTROL unwanted Java execution under windows XP, short of deleting it

    Well, coincidentally, I did just delete it -- again. I felt I had no choice as it was degrading system performance horribly doing endless page faults ... while doing nothing (or at least nothing I wanted it to be doing). Is it really such a piece of trash that there is no way to have it on my system on a strictly as-needed basis? Twenty years ago, people would have been embarrassed to put out such an ill mannered pig.

    Does anyone else have a more reasonable suggestion?

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    steve_usa is offline Member
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    Default Re: How can I CONTROL unwanted Java execution under windows XP, short of deleting it

    You guys are obviously real wizards. C-ya.

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    Norm's Avatar
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    Default Re: How can I CONTROL unwanted Java execution under windows XP, short of deleting it

    So long. Don't hurry back.
    quad64bit and Dark like this.

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    Default Re: How can I CONTROL unwanted Java execution under windows XP, short of deleting it

    Why is this in a Java forum??? If your concern was security on your Windows OS why didn't you check the MS Windows forum or ask Microsoft Sam or something
    quad64bit and Dark like this.

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    steve_usa is offline Member
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    Default Re: How can I CONTROL unwanted Java execution under windows XP, short of deleting it

    It is a Java question; I am SPECIFICALLY trying to find out how to keep JAVA on my system for occasional, controlled, use but NOT have it memory resident when it was not specifically wanted by me for a known application. I do, in fact, have a few applications which are written in Java and I like to run occasionally. What I currently have to do is physically delete Java from my system and then reinstall it from scratch about once a month. The alternative is to have this thing consuming resources and ALWAYS a security threat (if you don't know that Java exploits are near the top in terms of security threats on most machines, then you ought to do more reading and thinking).

    I'm sure there is a way to do it -- it should be the default and fairly trivial since, once upon a time, this was the way ALL interpreters worked ... they loaded on demand and then went away. That is called good default behavior. The decision to INFLICT java upon people 24/7, especially considering that most users scarcely understand the issues, rarely need Java, and likely don't even know how to remove it was a pig-like decision made by Sun, I guess, and now Oracle. They wanted to hide the Java bloat by preloading part of the environment so Java applications would have faster load times and thus appear more competitive with native apps. But imagine what would happen if EVERY run time for EVERY interpreter and every other application were to assert pre-loading on every system by default.

    It is obviously beyond Norm's decency to help me address my Java question. It isn't even apparent he has the intellect to understand why it would be better for Java NOT preload, by default, for most users. He, quite apparently, doesn't know all that much about Java if he doesn't know how to disable it's default behavior while keeping it on the system. Most of all, it is certain that he is a jerk. If he worked for my company, I'd fire his ass -- which probably explains why he is hanging out on a Java board as a full time, unpaid "moderator".

    I used to write assembler and C systems code and I have a Master's in Computer Science -- probably more computer experience than Norm has, even if a bit dated and no longer much used. My coming to this site to ask this question seemed a sensible thing to do -- I'm frankly surprised my simple problem is beyond the capabilities of this forum, which came up tops on my search ranking.

    Norm's "moderator" status is an embarrassment to this site and to the Java community as a whole.

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    Default Re: How can I CONTROL unwanted Java execution under windows XP, short of deleting it

    NOT have it memory resident
    How does the java program get "memory resident"?
    What is the java programming doing? How/where did it get started?

    I use java for a lot of things and do not have any unknown java programs running on my system. I control when and if any java program is started.

    Do you know about the autoruns.exe program? It will help you find programs that are getting started on your system that you might not want there.

    I'll ignore your insults.

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    pbrockway2 is offline Moderator
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    Default Re: How can I CONTROL unwanted Java execution under windows XP, short of deleting it

    Let your remove be remove, as Norm suggests. And your C-ya be C-ya. Spend your time instead learning how to use your 'puter and its OS.

    This is the n2j forum on a Java programming site. (Or, soapbox style, a JAVA PROGRAMMING site.) Season of goodwill? Bah, humbug! I smell troll.
    Last edited by pbrockway2; 12-29-2011 at 12:08 AM.

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    Default Re: How can I CONTROL unwanted Java execution under windows XP, short of deleting it

    Ok sheldon_usa, we're all really stupid and you're really clever.

    As I said before, this is a question for a windows forum (since you're running java on windows).

    Since you'd rather write me an essay than research it, I did a few google searches for you, and I believe this is the solution: Control access to software using Software Restrictions in Group Policy

    Create a separate user account in your windows os e.g. user: SHELDON and restrict java exe files from executing on it. Whenever you need to run java, do it on your admin account. Its the same sort of set up we have in schools nowadays where students are blocked from doing anything except using educational apps.

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    Default Re: How can I CONTROL unwanted Java execution under windows XP, short of deleting it

    Really? All this "computer" experience and you can't even google? Nor can you understand why in fact for a normal user its preferred to be running at all times? Normal users don't want to be bothered with having to wait for anything. Why would this be any different?

    Also, 20 years ago, no one even thought about releasing a language like Java. You were still looking at procedural languages like they were sent from the gods!

    I would like to point out that posting that question here was hardly sensible, this is a programming forum. The sensible place to ask would be an OS forum or visit the Oracle website support pages and ask them. You know, the guys who made the program.

    @Ozzy, love the Big Bang Theory references. Except Sheldon would have already known how to do it.
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