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  1. #1
    insanepenguin is offline Member
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    Default Is java a top language to learn?

    I'm still at the html/css and learning php stage but I plan to start a computing degree in October and a large portion of it is Java.

    Is Java a good language to know and add to a web development arsenal?

    Thanks

    Mike

  2. #2
    anthrax is offline Member
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    for me yes it is a good language to learn both for desktop and web development

  3. #3
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    Lil_Aziz1 is offline Senior Member
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    I really don't know. I didn't have much of a choice because Java is the only thing they taught at my school. I've heard C++ is better for beginners. C++ is like driving a car on manual while Java is driving a car on auto.
    "Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want" (Dan Stanford)
    "Rise and rise again until lambs become lions" (Robin Hood)

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    You can make an argument for many languages including python, but if you're looking for marketability, then look at the wanted ads. If you're looking to improve your abilities, then a) choose a language significantly different from your own, and b) has local sources of expertise that you can tap.

    Otherwise, what the heck, just learn whitespace or the "other" language.

  5. #5
    Lil_Aziz1's Avatar
    Lil_Aziz1 is offline Senior Member
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    lmao there's a language called brainfuck?
    "Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want" (Dan Stanford)
    "Rise and rise again until lambs become lions" (Robin Hood)

  6. #6
    insanepenguin is offline Member
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    If I learned C++ would Java be an easy transition?

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    quad64bit is offline Moderator
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    If I learned C++ would Java be an easy transition?
    Yes and no. Yes because the syntax is very similar and the concepts are also similar. No, because starting with C++ will tend to make you try to do java the hard way. Java eliminates a great deal of the pain in C++, and I have seen many C++ programmers get lost in the idea that doesn't have 45 different versions of an int.

  8. #8
    insanepenguin is offline Member
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    I see, so would you recommend I start with java then? makes sense as it's part of the degree too

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    [RaIdEn] is offline Senior Member
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    In my case, i started with java, which i felt was not the correct option. So went back in the programming timeline learnt C then came back to java. This step made me feel confident in programming in java after i learnt C.

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    Its up to you, but personally I feel starting with java is a good thing, since it allows you to focus on Object Oriented Concepts rather than memory leaks and TONS of little extra syntax elements. Also, since java is more forceful about what you cannot do, there are less ways to get into trouble and learn bad habits (goto, operator overloading, multiple inheritance, etc). I started with java and have since learned ObjC, Perl, PHP, ColdFusion, Pascal, Lisp, Prolog, Ruby and others - they all made me appreciate my java roots in one way or another.

  11. #11
    insanepenguin is offline Member
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    Cool, once my PHP is up to a decent standard I'll start learning Java before the degree starts in October.

    Cheers

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by insanepenguin View Post
    Cool, once my PHP is up to a decent standard I'll start learning Java before the degree starts in October.
    C++ is a much bigger language than Java and most people don't get beyond the idiosyncracies of that language. Quite a lot of people get even stuck in the more difficult parts or the 'not so obvious' parts of Java. Java is a better place to start but be aware that it isn't the world; there is much more ...

    kind regards,

    Jos

  13. #13
    insanepenguin is offline Member
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    I know there are other languages out there, I'm hoping after a year or so full time training at css php and java, I can get a job somewhere! :D

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    Newbie666 is offline Member
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    You may be able to get a job after 1 year, But I think it would be at a very low level. Most degrees run 3-4 years, So there is a lot to learn. But if it's your passion then go for it, personally I think getting the degree even if it does take 3 years will be worth it.

    As a side note there's lots of so called "IT institutions" that advertise they can get you a job in IT after 3 months, or 1 year of tutoring. Note all of them fail to mention the type of job involved. Usually it is never a job in the field you are learning it is almost always level 1 helpdesk (phone support), which almost anyone can do IT experience or none, training or not...

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    insanepenguin is offline Member
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    I know first hand about the so called 'IT institutions' lol A low level job would be fine I don't mind starting at the bottom and continuing to learn!

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    Yeah, go for it. However, having been a long time student and then a grad student/teach assistant, I got the opportunity to witness people working with the subject matter for a year or so, leaving for a job and coming back a year or two later. Without a formal degree, its very easy to get stuck as a php code monkey for companies like comcast, which apparently is hell on earth. My college friends that finished a 4 year degree in computer science got jobs starting in the $55-$65k range, and several recent grad school graduates have gotten entry level positions in the $65-$80k range.

    I honestly believe that to be truly proficient as a programmer, you need a lot more than mastery of syntax; you need several years experience with general topics like data structures, algorithm analysis, and software engineering. Many of these concepts cannot be picked up 'overnight' as they are very broad topics.

    Some manage to glean this information themselves on their own time, but that is a steep road to follow. Whatever you decide, I wish you the best! Good luck :D

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    insanepenguin is offline Member
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    I'm starting to do some freelance web design so I can earn a little bit while I study, so you would recommend completing my degree first then looking for relevant employment?

    Thanks

    Mike

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    I am in this boat, and the anser I have found is Yes. I am a C++ programmer, with 5 years of work experince, now I am working as a Java programmer, and from day one had very little problem, sure some things will be gotcha's (such as protected is Class, Child, AND package access) But it is all work able.
    Michael P. O'Connor
    http://www.mikeoconnor.net

  19. #19
    Newbie666 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by insanepenguin View Post
    I'm starting to do some freelance web design so I can earn a little bit while I study, so you would recommend completing my degree first then looking for relevant employment?

    Thanks

    Mike
    I would say YES. Not because I have experience, I'm still a nub but I know of people who jump into the workforce only to struggle and struggle and struggle and end up getting fired, or being sub-standard programmers.
    However web development freelance is fine, as you are showing initiative and willingness to learn. Most employers look favourably on this but I think learning the broad range you experience in a University Degree(3 years) will always beat someone who just gets a job for 3 years.
    Last edited by Newbie666; 01-22-2010 at 04:58 PM.

  20. #20
    insanepenguin is offline Member
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    thanks for all the input guys I appreciate it. I think I'll work for my degree first then look for employment in programming :D

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