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Thread: Are java desktop applications dead?

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    MW130 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Are java desktop applications dead?

    Hey guys, this is a general question. I was talking to a guy who was going to teach me Java and I told him I was interested only in desktop applications and in swing. (well, not only, but mainly.) He proceeded to reply that there is no need to learn that, unless taking a course on it. He said that Java desktop applications are dead, and that now people only use java on the web. He said that desktop application programming doesn't make any money... That was very sad to hear for me... Can anyone account for this being true? What about Minecraft? I am so sad, I was really looking forward to learning Swing, but i'm not going to if in a few years it will be virtually useless. Thanks for all replies. Regards.

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    MW130 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Are java desktop applications dead?

    Oh, also, will swing be here for a while or no? Is it worth it to learn swing?

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    Default Re: Are java desktop applications dead?

    Moved from New to Java

    db
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    MW130 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Are java desktop applications dead?

    huh? Wait db you are very experienced, what's your opinion on this? Thanks.

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    Default Re: Are java desktop applications dead?

    In my own personal opinion the language the program is made in often isn't the selling point, it's the functionality and purpose of the program.

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    Default Re: Are java desktop applications dead?

    I work on a full size financial Java Swing desktop application. It looks awesome, is fast and our customers love it. It has a full EJB3 stack, client-server AND stand-alone versions, multiple database support, reporting, pivoting, Excel interoperability, <insert more features here>... I love Swing programming. :)

    Your guy talks bullshit. Java is used in more places than just "the web", whatever that may be. Desktop application programming doesn't make any money? What planet did he come from? I will agree if he says that there are more web-projects than Swing-projects. Perhaps it has something to do with HTML being easier to learn than Swing, I don't know. But with projects, it all depends on the requirements of the project whether you should build it in HTML or Swing. As for the future, obviously there are more web-projects for Java at the moment, so learn to do that first, and in the meantime, learn Swing on the side, so you can offer an alternative to your customers.

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    MW130 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Are java desktop applications dead?

    Surfman, I really liked your response. Vinx, however I don't understand. Im not talking about switching languages. I'm talking about swing or web applications. So, surfman, you don't see swing going away to be replaced by javaFX? Thanks.

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    Default Re: Are java desktop applications dead?

    No, I don't see Swing being replaced by JavaFX. Swing has different usages than JavaFX. JavaFX is very Scene/Graphics/Animation oriented, whereas Swing is best used for creating the traditional GUI. I cannot see myself writing a serious business application with JavaFX.

    In my opinion, JavaFX was dead before it was born. I remember it being introduced on the JavaOne, I believe back in 2006. It was hyped Apple style, but nothing happened after the introduction. To add insult to injury, Sun/Oracle have waited a very long time with Linux support, which I happen to use. It has just become a little bit more serious with JavaFX2, 6 years later. On the positive side, JavaFX beats Java2D hands down. But unfortunately, business apps are not created in Java2D.

    What I hope is that JavaFX will come a little bit more integrated in the JDK, so we can use it in a mixed environment. I could create killer animated charts and other visualizations which are a bitch to make in Java2D.

    Don't take my word for it, but keep up on blogs and the news to form your own opinion. YMMV.

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    Default Re: Are java desktop applications dead?

    JavaFX is already bundled in both the JDK and JRE. IMO JavaFX will rapidly gain ground only after Java 8 introduces closures. Without closures, FX2 code is even more verbose than Swing but that will change.

    Combining FX and Swing in the same application is a headache, since the Application thread isn't the EDT.

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    Default Re: Are java desktop applications dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarrylBurke View Post
    Combining FX and Swing in the same application is a headache, since the Application thread isn't the EDT.
    I am sure the Java Devs will find a way to fix that before 2016... ;)
    Fubarable likes this.

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    MW130 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Are java desktop applications dead?

    When will java 8 come out? Well, for now, I think I will go with Swing then. Maybe, as DarrylBurke said, they will make JavaFX better. Then I will switch. Thanks for all the responses.

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    Default Re: Are java desktop applications dead?

    I wonder if you're wasting energy on needless worry. Who cares if Swing becomes "defunct" next week? If you've learned key programming concepts when creating your Swing program, then this knowledge will be applicable in the future no matter what programming language or GUI library you use. Key programming concepts don't go out of date and are programming language and library independent. The key for me is, what can a language and library do for me right now? Can I use it to create useful utilities that will make doing my job easier right now? If so, then I'll use it. If not, then I'll use something else.

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    Default Re: Are java desktop applications dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fubarable View Post
    I wonder if you're wasting energy on needless worry. Who cares if Swing becomes "defunct" next week? If you've learned key programming concepts when creating your Swing program, then this knowledge will be applicable in the future no matter what programming language or GUI library you use. Key programming concepts don't go out of date and are programming language and library independent. The key for me is, what can a language and library do for me right now? Can I use it to create useful utilities that will make doing my job easier right now? If so, then I'll use it. If not, then I'll use something else.

    That's a great way to look at it! I just don't want to, like you said, learn swing, only to find it be useless later... :P. But, Fubarable, what is your opinion on the Desktop vs. Web thought?

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    Default Re: Are java desktop applications dead?

    If you're forever cleaning cobwebs, it's time to get rid of the spiders.

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    Default Re: Are java desktop applications dead?

    There are always parts where java desktop applications are usefull. But as far as I saw it in my last jobs , you are right desktop applications die more and more, because they are not as easy to patch and to install like web application.
    Also you have very often a database in it envirements and an architecture with desktop and server applications is not as easy to implement as it looks.

    If you like to know what to learn next. I think JEE Web applications are right now a good horse to bet.

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    Default Re: Are java desktop applications dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by zael View Post
    There are always parts where java desktop applications are usefull. But as far as I saw it in my last jobs , you are right desktop applications die more and more, because they are not as easy to patch and to install like web application.
    Also you have very often a database in it envirements and an architecture with desktop and server applications is not as easy to implement as it looks.

    If you like to know what to learn next. I think JEE Web applications are right now a good horse to bet.
    I disagree on that. We have a full fledged Java Swing application. It runs both standalone as client/server using JNDI and EJB's, supports three kinds of databases out of the box where a new database can be plugged in quite easily. It can be patched with a new jar file where clients automatically download the latest version form the server. The Swing client does things you can't do in a JEE web application, like calculate complex financial models that hold millions of objects and can take up several gigs of RAM, depending on how much data the customer puts in. We can have 20 of these clients talking to a single server. If needed a second server can be added to form a cluster (JBoss ftw!). Try making a web application where each client uses up to 4GB of RAM and then 20 clients per server. :)

    So I agree that Java desktop applications are a minority compared to Java web applications, but some things can't be done in web apps. That's where we step in.
    DarrylBurke likes this.

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