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  1. #1
    janpol1 is offline Member
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    Default Plugin development??

    Hi everyone, im an informatic engineering student and i am working in a proyect that involves developing an IDE for a propietary programming languaje. We are thinking to develop an Eclipse plugin to accomplish this. It should be able to:

    .Show a tree with classes and methods
    .Create the proyect files (these are particular to the languaje's compiler)
    .When people code in this languaje, they need to add special XML tags, the IDE should hide those tags, and then put them again when the file is saved.
    .Communicate with the existing compiler
    .We do not need debug
    .We don't need syntax checking
    .We don't need syntax highlighting

    The problem is that we don't have any experience with eclipse, so we need to know if this is possible before we get any deeper, or if there is a better alternative. Maybe is better to modify eclipse rather than building a plugin. Thanks for your answers, and sorry about my english :)

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    Eranga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janpol1 View Post
    The problem is that we don't have any experience with eclipse, so we need to know if this is possible before we get any deeper, or if there is a better alternative. Maybe is better to modify eclipse rather than building a plugin. Thanks for your answers, and sorry about my english :)
    You say that you never work on with Eclipse. I think it's much much better to get familiar with firs of all, if you are not.

    Then go to the Eclipse official website and search there for such instructions. May be you can find some useful pages.

    May be this can helpful to you.

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    georgemc is offline Senior Member
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    If this is a proprietary language, what business does it have with the existing compiler? I presume you mean the Java compiler?

    Everything you've described is possible using Eclipse RCP and the JDT. Do you already have a compiler for this proprietary language? One that works outside of an IDE, I mean. If not, that would be your first step. If you want to see an example of what mess you can get into writing an IDE before the language is decided upon properly, go use Visual Basic for a while!

    Two books I can't recommend enough for Eclipse plugin development:

    Amazon.co.uk: Eclipse Rich Client Platform: Designing, Coding, and Packaging Java Applications (Eclipse (Addison-Wesley)): Jeff McAffer, Jean-Michel Lemieux: Books
    Amazon.co.uk: Eclipse: Building Commercial-Quality Plug-Ins (Eclipse (Addison-Wesley)): Eric Clayberg, Dan Rubel: Books

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    Eranga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgemc View Post
    Everything you've described is possible using Eclipse RCP and the JDT.
    Yes it's. But writing a plugin in different way is not a bad idea.

    In my experience developing pulugins and such application, native language like C is the best.

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    janpol1 is offline Member
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    If this is a proprietary language, what business does it have with the existing compiler? I presume you mean the Java compiler?
    Everything you've described is possible using Eclipse RCP and the JDT. Do you already have a compiler for this proprietary language?
    I already have a compiler for this language that works outside the IDE (i was talking about this compiler, not the java compiler).

    You say that you never work on with Eclipse. I think it's much much better to get familiar with firs of all, if you are not.
    I am trying to get familiar with eclipse, but i wanted to know if it was a good idea to make this plugin before i started working with eclipse. Eranga, what did you mean by "writing a plugin in different way"? Thanks a lot for your answers

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    Eranga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janpol1 View Post
    I am trying to get familiar with eclipse, but i wanted to know if it was a good idea to make this plugin before i started working with eclipse. Eranga, what did you mean by "writing a plugin in different way"? Thanks a lot for your answers
    What I'm saying is, writing your own plugin and use it is not a bad idea. May be your plugin can have more advance performance currently what use.

    Actually I think it's much much better, as I said earlier, familiar with Eclipse before start work on your application.

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    georgemc is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eranga View Post
    Yes it's. But writing a plugin in different way is not a bad idea.

    In my experience developing pulugins and such application, native language like C is the best.
    You think 'C' is the best language to write a plugin for Eclipse - a Java application? And you're a self-confessed non-Eclipse user? Hmmmm, forgive me for doubting your assertion here!

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    georgemc is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by janpol1 View Post
    I already have a compiler for this language that works outside the IDE (i was talking about this compiler, not the java compiler).
    Ah, thanks for clearing that up. Then simply remove the term "JDT" from my post above, and proceed as before :-)

    I am trying to get familiar with eclipse, but i wanted to know if it was a good idea to make this plugin before i started working with eclipse. Eranga, what did you mean by "writing a plugin in different way"? Thanks a lot for your answers

    I think Eranga is somewhat confused here, and is throwing some misinformation your way. Native code is most definately neither appropriate nor necessary here. Quite why attempting to use wholly unsuitable tools to achieve something pretty straightforward is considered a good idea, I can't say, but the Eclipse platform sounds to be exactly what you need - it's designed for writing IDEs in

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    georgemc is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eranga View Post
    What I'm saying is, writing your own plugin and use it is not a bad idea. May be your plugin can have more advance performance currently what use.
    Well, since this is a proprietary language, there aren't any plugins for it, remember. Bear in mind that the Eclipse Java SDK is only one small part of the beast that is the Eclipse Platform

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    Eranga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgemc View Post
    You think 'C' is the best language to write a plugin for Eclipse - a Java application? And you're a self-confessed non-Eclipse user? Hmmmm, forgive me for doubting your assertion here!
    I'm not saying that C is the best language to write a plugin for Eclipse, I'm saying that C is best for developing such application, basically where we have to deal with kernel level or the lower level of the OS. I'm not an Eclipse user. I'm a NetBeans user. I'm using lots of my own plugins written in C/C++ as some plugins. Actually I user them as linking libraries. Actually not only using C, using pascal as well you can do the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by georgemc View Post
    I think Eranga is somewhat confused here, and is throwing some misinformation your way. Native code is most definately neither appropriate nor necessary here. Quite why attempting to use wholly unsuitable tools to achieve something pretty straightforward is considered a good idea, I can't say, but the Eclipse platform sounds to be exactly what you need - it's designed for writing IDEs in
    Please read the post #6. I'm not saying him to write his plugin using C.

    As a hint I give that use of native language really helpful. As I said I'm not a Eclipse user, but in my experience I do the same thing for NetBeans.

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    georgemc is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eranga View Post
    I'm not saying that C is the best language to write a plugin for Eclipse, I'm saying that C is best for developing such application, basically where we have to deal with kernel level or the lower level of the OS. I'm not an Eclipse user. I'm a NetBeans user. I'm using lots of my own plugins written in C/C++ as some plugins. Actually I user them as linking libraries. Actually not only using C, using pascal as well you can do the same.
    But the OP is specifically asking about Eclipse plugins, and I don't see what kernel-level coding has to do with this question. A compiler isn't a particularly low-level application. ECJ is written in pure Java, even Sun's Javac is written largely in Java, a compiler isn't anywhere near low-level enough to require native code. You seem to be answering a question here that was never asked!

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    georgemc is offline Senior Member
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    Reply #4:

    In my experience developing pulugins and such application, native language like C is the best.
    I don't even know what you mean by "such application", but since the OP wishes to write an IDE, I can only assume that's what you mean. And of course, that's nonsense. Correct me if you meant something else by "such application"

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    janpol1 is offline Member
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    Ah, thanks for clearing that up. Then simply remove the term "JDT" from my post above, and proceed as before :-)
    So i should go for the Eclipse RCP??

    Is there any documents i should read to get started with this? Thanks a lot again for your quick answers :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by georgemc View Post
    But the OP is specifically asking about Eclipse plugins, and I don't see what kernel-level coding has to do with this question. A compiler isn't a particularly low-level application. ECJ is written in pure Java, even Sun's Javac is written largely in Java, a compiler isn't anywhere near low-level enough to require native code. You seem to be answering a question here that was never asked!
    Seems still you don't have a clear idea what I'm trying to say.

    First, OP wants to write a plugin for Eclipse to have some new features. But he's not mentioned about the language which going to use. But since Eclipse specially use for Java development we can assume that OP going to use Java (Post#1)

    Then, I comment on that since he's not familiar with Eclipse it's much better to get on touch with that. I think it must. You have any comments to say that I'm wrong on that?(Post#2)

    After that, you say that the same thing is possible in Eclipse. Ans also you are not recommended to use few books as well. I've no comments on that because as I said several times, not an Eclipse user.(Post#3)

    I comment on part of the Post#3, even the Eclipse have the same functionality, it's not a bad idea to develop another tool/plugin/application to do the same thing. It's really fine if someone can develop a tool in different way, may be the performance can be advance than currently available.(Post#4)

    Important thing, or the messing up thing between us comes on that same post. In my experience, again in my experience, developing a plugin or any low level dealing application, native language is the best. You may be mess with low level, every time developing an application we have to thing about memory. Since Java not talk much about that people doesn't worry about that. But memory issues can be have on Java as well. Using a native language we can do it much perfectly. As I said, I don't know how it deal with Eclipse, but in NetBeans it's possible.

    For you working with low level language can be nonsense. But for me it's a grate way to achieve my best. I've already done it. I don't want to care about comments on people like you. I've just give a tip, that's all. What I've done is let to others what I know. That's it.

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    georgemc is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by janpol1 View Post
    So i should go for the Eclipse RCP??

    Is there any documents i should read to get started with this? Thanks a lot again for your quick answers :)
    It's how I'd proceed if I were writing an IDE. People will tell you that "Eclipse is so bloated and buggy", forgetting that they actually mean "The Eclipse Java SDK is bloated and buggy". The platform itself is actually rather lean, and well-tested, and ideal for your purposes

    Good resources are the two books I linked to above, Eclipse.org's newsgroups and, in fact, the Eclipse RCP help itself

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    georgemc is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eranga View Post
    Seems still you don't have a clear idea what I'm trying to say.

    First, OP wants to write a plugin for Eclipse to have some new features. But he's not mentioned about the language which going to use. But since Eclipse specially use for Java development we can assume that OP going to use Java (Post#1)

    Then, I comment on that since he's not familiar with Eclipse it's much better to get on touch with that. I think it must. You have any comments to say that I'm wrong on that?(Post#2)

    After that, you say that the same thing is possible in Eclipse. Ans also you are not recommended to use few books as well. I've no comments on that because as I said several times, not an Eclipse user.(Post#3)

    I comment on part of the Post#3, even the Eclipse have the same functionality, it's not a bad idea to develop another tool/plugin/application to do the same thing. It's really fine if someone can develop a tool in different way, may be the performance can be advance than currently available.(Post#4)

    Important thing, or the messing up thing between us comes on that same post. In my experience, again in my experience, developing a plugin or any low level dealing application, native language is the best. You may be mess with low level, every time developing an application we have to thing about memory. Since Java not talk much about that people doesn't worry about that. But memory issues can be have on Java as well. Using a native language we can do it much perfectly. As I said, I don't know how it deal with Eclipse, but in NetBeans it's possible.

    For you working with low level language can be nonsense. But for me it's a grate way to achieve my best. I've already done it. I don't want to care about comments on people like you. I've just give a tip, that's all. What I've done is let to others what I know. That's it.
    What I mean is, why do you think using native code is appropriate to develop a plugin to a Java application? Why do you think "plugin" is in any way low-level? I don't mean to be argumentative, but you're very much clouding the issue for the OP, when we're supposed to be making things clearer for him. What he's proposing is very much NOT a low-level application. It's an IDE.

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    Did I say any where that a plugin is a low-level. I don't think so. I've say that to write a plugin we can use low-level language like C. With the lower level we can have much reliable result.

    And also I'm not saying that write a plugin for Java using native language. How can you do that. Only thing I know is to write a plugin for a Java IDE.

    OP wants to write a plugin for Eclipse and use it as another IDE, right? He doesn't want to write a IDE.

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    georgemc is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eranga View Post
    Did I say any where that a plugin is a low-level. I don't think so.


    Yes. You repeatedly talk about writing plugins in a native language, then in reply #10 you finally say that plugins have to deal with the kernel, or the OS directly. Which isn't true,

    I've say that to write a plugin we can use low-level language like C. With the lower level we can have much reliable result.
    You can't, in fact, without so much faffing about that any perceived "reliability" is thrown out of the window a hundred times over. It's far easier to write unstable code in 'C' than it is in Java.

    And also I'm not saying that write a plugin for Java using native language. How can you do that. Only thing I know is to write a plugin for a Java IDE.
    So why are you repeatedly bringing up the "fact" that using native code is the "best" way to write plugins? There's nothing in this thread that would mandate the use of native code for anything, whether the OP decides to use Eclipse as a platform or not.

    OP wants to write a plugin for Eclipse and use it as another IDE, right? He doesn't want to write a IDE.
    Is there a difference? Eclipse isn't just and IDE, it's a platform for building pluggable applications, with a platform for building rich GUI applications on top of that, another platform for building IDEs on top of that, and it's on that platform that the Eclipse Java, C/C++ and whatever other languages Eclipse can manage, are built. That's where the OP is looking to work, on top of that platform. All of those platforms are pure Java applications, there's no native code to be written anywhere

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    I think it's better to comment on this more, because as you said several times OP can be misguided from my comments.

    What I have to say is, using native language it's possible to write plugins. I said that I'm not an Eclipse user and I've no idea about that. But I've already using my own pulgins in NetBeans develop using C++, and it's working fine. That's all I have to say.

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