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Thread: Advice needed

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    dineshjf is offline Member
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    Default Advice needed

    Hi my name is dinesh,

    I completed my B'tech in 2005 and got selected in an IT company(bangalore) in 2006.
    There I was working on UI development in C++(gtkmm) with linux os for 2 years.

    I was fired out from that company last week(30 of us lost their job in the same day).
    I don't want to work on c++ UI development anymore.
    Now I am confused, I have no idea on which one to learn either java or testing.

    My academic project was on core java so that I know core java(not j2ee).
    Some of my friends suggest me to learn testing as it is not much difficult to learn.
    Some of them suggest me to learn java, they are saying that as I have already been in programming field, it is not going to be difficult to learn java.

    I am very confused. I must make a decision as fast as possible.
    so guys PLEASE suggest me the best

    Thanks in advance!

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    Eranga's Avatar
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    First of all, I'm really sorry that what happen to you. Actually world economic crises effect a lot for the IT field.

    Anyway, my first question for is, do you work on MFC to develop UI in C++? If so I think you have much familiar with standard C/C++. If not that's the first mistake you have done. But now everything is happen.

    Why don't you like to work on with C++? As far as I concern, C++ is the most effective language in commercial. Most of the massive applications are based on standard C/C++.

    If you know core Java, I think best option you have is carry on with Java, not with testing. Actually the knowledge of core Java is enough to survive in the industry. Later you can improve your knowledge on other relevant areas. I don't see any advantages on testings.

    Good luck!

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    dineshjf is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eranga View Post
    First of all, I'm really sorry that what happen to you. Actually world economic crises effect a lot for the IT field.

    Anyway, my first question for is, do you work on MFC to develop UI in C++? If so I think you have much familiar with standard C/C++. If not that's the first mistake you have done. But now everything is happen.

    We didn't use MFC to develop UI.

    If you know core Java, I think best option you have is carry on with Java, not with testing. Actually the knowledge of core Java is enough to survive in the industry. Later you can improve your knowledge on other relevant areas. I don't see any advantages on testings.

    Good luck!
    Thanks a lot for ur reply.

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    I agree with Eranga. If you have programming skills, they will prove more valuable in the long run, since there are fewer good programmers.

    A lot of code is written in C++, so I wouldn't give up on that. In addition, if you know C++, you can pretty much code in any other language. Java, as you know, is very similar to C++, so Java skills can complement your C++. Same with Microsoft .NET C#, which is almost identical to Java.

    Don't worry about J2EE. That is simply a group of servers and services written in Java, and you write Java code to use them. You will learn about them as you go.

    If you want to expand a little, learn about HTML, Javascript, and CSS. These are the core competencies for Web development. You can easily setup a Tomcat Web application server on a PC, which will get you in touch with a portion of J2EE.

    I'm sorry about your job... Keep looking, and don't worry if you don't have specific skills. If you did C++, you can do anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve11235 View Post
    If you did C++, you can do anything.
    Absolutely.

    I've started my carrier with C++. It's really helpful to learn a lots of basis concepts on programming, and to learn other languages. Actually as far as I know still C/C++ programmers have the higher value than the Java programmers in the world.

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    dineshjf is offline Member
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    THANKS A LOT Steve and Eranka. You have made me confident. I should be thankful to you two.

    Steve,
    Can you please tell me what is CSS. is it must having knowledge on struts, hebernate, and velocity ?

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    Sorry to hear of your job, its happening a lot these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by dineshjf View Post
    learn either java or testing. My academic project was on core java so that I know core java(not j2ee).
    The world needs great testers and always will. Learning the basics of testing is easy, but basic testing is boring. Being a creating tester is a lot of work/skill. And the programmers will hate you. But that's just because you find bugs and flaws in their code. Too bad, if programmers would stop writing bugs, testers would not be needed. (and the sun would rise in the West).

    Do not learn J2EE. Never. It failed. Its too complex. No one uses it anymore.

    If you are a professional developer, you should learn three or four languages. Each has advantages and weaknesses. Learn them all and get better.

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    Do not learn J2EE. Never. It failed. Its too complex. No one uses it anymore.
    What is used in its place?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dineshjf View Post
    Can you please tell me what is CSS. is it must having knowledge on struts, hebernate, and velocity ?
    Seems to me you don't have touch with web development technologies.

    CSS stand for Cascading Style Sheets, used to make style on web pages. Simply most the HTML pages, text colored, image adding and lots of formating done through the CSS file.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fubarable View Post
    What is used in its place?
    Yes it is. And I'm wondering why you advice not to learn J2EE?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eranga View Post
    Yes it is. And I'm wondering why you advice not to learn J2EE?
    I didn't advise this, but rather it was fishtoprecords. I have the same question as yours as well as my original question to fish which you've quoted. I'm not active in enterprise computing so I have to plead ignorance, hence all the questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fubarable View Post
    What is used in its place?
    Nearly anything. J2EE was such a failure that even Sun has stopped using the term.

    Many of the parts are fine. Web containers (tomcat, jboss, glassfish), servlets, jsp pages, etc.

    But the whole J2EE collection, with EnterpriseBeans, heavy XML, etc. is too heavy, too complex.



    Better, Faster, Lighter Java
    By Bruce A. Tate, Justin Gehtland
    ISBN 10: 0-596-00676-4 | ISBN 13: 9780596006761
    From the book:
    Description

    In Better, Faster, Lighter Java, authors Bruce Tate and Justin Gehtland argue that the old heavyweight architectures, such as WebLogic, JBoss, and WebSphere, are unwieldy, complicated, and contribute to slow and buggy application code. As an alternative, the authors present two "lightweight" open source architectures, Hibernate and Spring, that can help you create enterprise applications that are easier to maintain, write, and debug, and are ultimately much faster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fubarable View Post
    I didn't advise this, but rather it was fishtoprecords. I have the same question as yours as well as my original question to fish which you've quoted. I'm not active in enterprise computing so I have to plead ignorance, hence all the questions.
    Sorry lol, I just accept your comment. It's my mistake, it should be pointed to fishtoprecords. Actually I have the same thought like you. Really sorry again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishtoprecords View Post
    Nearly anything. J2EE was such a failure that even Sun has stopped using the term....
    And as always, thanks!

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    As Eranga said, CSS stands for Cascading Style Sheets, and it is how you control the appearance of a Web page. Simple uses can do a lot, and if you learn the complex uses, it is simply amazing.

    Struts, etc. are frameworks, which means someone has taken the time to do a lot of coding to make a standard task easier. The only problem with learning frameworks is that your company has to choose one of several competing frameworks, and they may not choose the one you know.

    Having said that, learning Struts is worthwhile, because it teaches you how to use a framework and it implements MVC (Model View Controller) in the Web environment. JSP makes no provision for the control aspect of Web applications, and Struts provides powerful, extensible provisions for control without interfering with the view (implemented using JSP) or the model.

    Even if you end up using some other framework at your company, your knowledge of Struts will help you.

    Hibernate is a persistence framework, which is useful in Web applications running on multiple servers, but that topic is too advanced to start off with. I'm not familiar with Velocity, but I'm not familiar with it. Again, there are many frameworks in Java-land, and each task can have several competing frameworks, so don't get too involved with one until you have a reason to.

    I also suggest learning about Swing. When it first came out, it was very poor, but Sun has improved it immensely. Its big drawback is that it is industrial strength (like all of Java), which means you have to know a lot to get started. However, Swing can create amazing GUI's, once you know how.

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    Thanks again Steve and Eranka

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve11235 View Post
    I also suggest learning about Swing.
    But, unless they have improved Swing a lot, its for desktop and other "client side" applications. Swing is roughly equivalent to MS' MFC system.

    For web applications, Swing doesn't help. At all. For web applications, you want to learn how servlets and jsp do things.

    I know that folks on this forum talk a lot about client applications, but I haven't written one in Java or any other language in nine or ten years. Every thing I do is web based. And for them, effort learning Swing is a wasted effort.

    Folks here even talk about applets, and while I did a lot of applet work, it was in 1997, and we gave up on the whole idea quickly. Applets were a great idea, badly implemented.

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    Fish-

    I never wrote a Java GUI until this year. Then I got a job working on a complicated console application. 2008 was the Year of Swing for me. I went in with a very poor impression, and am very pleased to announce, with Java 1.5 and 1.6, that Swing can create great GUI's.

    If you read all my posts, I suggested learning Web tech first; later, I also suggested Swing. "Rich clients" are the new fad, and they have a definite place in the world, even as Web browsers are becoming better client containers.

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